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Post by mikey cee on Apr 16, 2013 17:47:08 GMT -5
Myself and Istarmullet seem to be the only one's trying to put a good face on Istar's products and lenses. But I have a question to ask you Istar enthusiasts. Could I ask at least a handfull to help us out by getting involved instead of not looking too hard, lurking or just sitting back and being entertained. I believe Istar is getting a lot of seeds of doubt cast their way. Plus most of these naysayers expect someone else to do their bidding for them by having your lenses tested. BS to this is what I have to say. Those guys can do it like we did and purchase these lenses themselves. You nor I sat back and waited for someone else to do it for us. They complain that they don't see or hear of enough positive reports about Istar lenses. They have even gone so far as to say you are too ashamed of the mistake you made to admit it.  They don't care that only people who get a bad product bitch and moan but that satisfied customers don't always chime in with a positive note. Thanks for your input. Mike  |
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Post by jimcurry on Apr 16, 2013 21:31:55 GMT -5
Mikey:
Mr. Barnett has definitely found your hot button :>). It'll be interesting to see the results of the 4" shootout.
Jim
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Post by mikey cee on Apr 16, 2013 22:05:01 GMT -5
Yeah he's hit my hot button alright. And it has nothing to do with the quality of Istar lenses. Barnett and a few others that twist everything while they ignore the fact that they want everyone else to be the guinea pigs. Yeah I'll send your lens in. But if it gets damaged in the round trip tough cookies. If Rohr says it's good then that still won't be good enough. Ah the next lens probably won't be as good just luck they say. And on and on it'll go. He'll never be satisfied. He'll never buy a new one. He'll only buy used from someone he can trust down the road who is upgrading. To them it's just the beginning. They can buy their own lens and ship it off to Rohr.  Mike |
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Post by kevinbarker on Apr 16, 2013 23:15:54 GMT -5
Yeah he's hit my hot button alright. And it has nothing to do with the quality of Istar lenses. Barnett and a few others that twist everything while they ignore the fact that they want everyone else to be the guinea pigs. Yeah I'll send your lens in. But if it gets damaged in the round trip tough cookies. If Rohr says it's good then that still won't be good enough. Ah the next lens probably won't be as good just luck they say. And on and on it'll go. He'll never be satisfied. He'll never buy a new one. He'll only buy used from someone he can trust down the road who is upgrading. To them it's just the beginning. They can buy their own lens and ship it off to Rohr. Mike |
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Post by kevinbarker on Apr 16, 2013 23:30:08 GMT -5
Mike
Maybe he is best ignored? He is trying to wind folks up IMHO.
Kevin
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Post by bn1777 on Apr 19, 2013 18:28:41 GMT -5
Dont worry mate , I am almost ready to post on that thread , the man's a fool .
As you said , he likes the sound of his own voice ! .
Brian.
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Post by Watcher3 on Apr 20, 2013 11:45:26 GMT -5
Mike. Barnett and I went round and round WAAAAAY back when. It was unfounded quality assertions from him and folks like him that pushed me to start this site in the first place. According to him, EVERY report from a satisfied customer is either a lie or a delusion. He won't buy one or recommend one, or even admit that an Istar might be as good as the customer reports claim they are, because owner reports are too easily dismissed as "fan boy" bull shit. and you're right Mike even if an Istar tests better than any scope Rohr has ever tested before, he'll no doubt claim that these "Chinese" lenses are probably variable, and Istar got lucky.
I wonder how many independent test reports he read before purchasing his TEC? or is he just full of shit, and customer satisfaction is good enough for the brands that he deems worthy? I think the latter.
I think the best way to combat him is the way you have been. State your experience with your Istar. Give specifics on it's performance, and call him out to prove you wrong when he calls you a liar. Personally, I would think that Istar owners would be clamoring to send a lens off to be tested if they were unhappy with the quality they got from Istar.
We have reaped some benefit from the asinine Istar bashing going on over at CN. more people than ever are tuning in over here to get some information "straight from the horses mouth". We have beaten the record for viewers online at the same time that stood for over two years. With the interest being generated even more satified customer reports will come to light, and sooner or later, even Barnett will be swept away by the sheer weight of "anecdotal" evidence.
Joe
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Post by mikey cee on Apr 20, 2013 12:54:58 GMT -5
Joe you notice how Barnett who is an attorney side steps the issue that I have put forth several times. Even tho' it isn't staying on the topic it is relevant as far as it concerns him. I've told him to buy his own lens and have Rohr test it. He's slick. Just keep off of that side note and keep hammerin' at the sheep to demand that those guinea pigs that already purchased a lens have it tested. The balls! An attorney that can't afford to take a chance on a $915 lens(R35)and have it tested too! Oh that big hearted offer of sending someone else's lens in for testing with him covering any ancillary costs is or should be an embarrassing statement of his character. Here I am retired making no money putting my cash on the line, trusting in Istar whole heartedly. And our "other friend" isn't far behind Barnett either. Mike |
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Post by Watcher3 on Apr 20, 2013 16:44:55 GMT -5
Wish I could find the original thread on CN from years back. I seem to remember him saying stuff, at the time , like "well,,,,until a bunch of people start buying these scopes and reporting on their quality, we won't know." Well, now that that's happened, he needs an independent tester that he approves of to confirm the "fan boy opinions". He has some pretty absurd sense of logic, and it's a shame that he garners respect from a group of CN regulars. I guess they would rather drink of his Cool-aid than open their eyes and take a look for themselves.
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Post by Ales - iStar Optical on Apr 22, 2013 16:46:34 GMT -5
I went a bit overboard with my reply here, I will simply leave everyone to say and write what ever they want about ISTAR Optical, without asking the actual owners to step up and question the bashers. But I will of course appreciate if the actual owners of Istar optics will share their experience publicly. For this I sincerely thank you.
Best regards,
Ales
Istar Optical, owner
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Post by jimcurry on Apr 23, 2013 7:45:27 GMT -5
There does seem to exist a cadre of "refractor police" on CN. For years I've noticed they all seem to have a common link, they're APO owners. So apparently, once your nose gets elevated in that milieu, any upstart trying to separate themselves from the pack needs a good beat-down. Mr. Barnett has a 4" f/12 Istar achro he's playing with. Let's see what he says if he posts something.
Jim
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gord
Full Member
Posts: 82
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Post by gord on Apr 23, 2013 12:39:59 GMT -5
Hi Ales, I should make this clear here since you have called me out specifically. I *AM* a satisfied customer around the aspects of this 6" F10 classic achro I have that have met or exceeded what I was looking for. That doesn't mean I am completely satisfied with all elements of the product and I don't think I have ever stated that. It (like all others I have) is not perfect and thus I am not satisfied in all regards. I've gone into those deficiencies in the past (planetary compared to some other scopes, bright stars, etc.), but as to why it's coming out now, it's just a side effect of a continuous learning process. I noted some of these issues (call them observations) in the past but didn't understand them. I've been learning more all the time and now recognize things I didn't in the past, including ways that I was looking at things that caused me to misunderstand what I was seeing. Here's a specific example; I tried star testing the objective in the past, but didn't have as much knowledge as I do now. One mistake I made was I used too much de-focus when looking at the patterns. I understood enough at the time to know that the test should show things are the same on both sides of focus. In this case at that larger amount of de-focus, they *generally* were. Fast forward to present day where I have been testing something new that involved close scrutiny of the diffraction pattern and looking at the breakout at only a very few waves of de-focus, and things are very different looking than they are much farther out. This lens is showing a clear indication of balanced high-order SA (BHSA), or at least what it appears as. Also the in-focus pattern matches what is predicted to be seen in that scenario and as it turns out explains perfectly why I have not been satisfied with the high power images of bright stars (a *lot* of diffraction rings seen and generally a messy view). I had noted this before and could only chalk it up to poor seeing, maybe collimation being slightly off, or something like that. Have a look here for a visual aid (I'm seeing something closer to the bottom images): www.telescope-optics.net/images/lhsa.JPGSo you can see, it's really just changes to what one knows that lead to looking at things in new light, and making new discoveries. I certainly haven't reached the end yet, and am trying to even understand the significance of what I see above. Is this normal? Is it causing a significant impact? What causes it? etc. Still much more to learn. Luckily I am in a fortunate position to have many resources available for comparison, so I can see how things perform differently, where there are strengths, and where there are weaknesses among each. As I said, I am still satisfied with many aspects of the product, but just as before, not all. I'm just finally getting a little closer to determining why and what they are attributed to. And I still think this lens is a good value, even with it's deficiencies. Clear skies, -Gord |
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Post by mikey cee on Apr 23, 2013 15:55:06 GMT -5
Gord my friend you sound like you need answers soon. I'd be getting that lens of yours over to Germany pronto so we can all see Rohr's findings!! Mr. B says he will cover the shipping and insurance. We all can't wait.  Mike |
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Post by jimcurry on Apr 23, 2013 19:16:09 GMT -5
Ales:
I understand your reasoning early on but at this point I think you're putting too much out there. As a suggestion, take down any and all of those test reports and don't provide them in the future. Publish what you guarantee you build the lenses to in specification (written) format but not the pretty pictures that the experts are just going to sharpshoot you with. Does Synta provide them, AP, TEC? Any other achro company? Just a polite suggestion.
Kind regards,
Jim
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gord
Full Member
Posts: 82
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Post by gord on Apr 23, 2013 20:25:22 GMT -5
Gord my friend you sound like you need answers soon. I'd be getting that lens of yours over to Germany pronto so we can all see Rohr's findings!! Mr. B says he will cover the shipping and insurance. We all can't wait. Mike Ha ha ha! Mike, you've been having a lot of fun with this one, glad to see you enjoying yourself! I'm actually open to looking at Jim's proposal. I'd like to know how it tests objectively (no pun intended!) by someone as experienced as Mr. Rohr. It would give me a nice reference point to be able to compare to other results he shows and get an idea of how well I can pick things out on my own. That being said, it will have to wait a bit still. I mentioned above that I am fortunate to have many options for comparisons. That has recently increased again directly related to comparable achro refractors. I now have here two additional 6" F10 achromats (Jaegers) that I will be evaluating and comparing directly to my IStar 6" F10. I'm also amassing components to construct my own interferometer to test with. But after that, we'll see... Clear skies! -Gord |
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They don't care that only people who get a bad product bitch and moan but that satisfied customers don't always chime in with a positive note. Thanks for your input. Mike 
Mike
Mike