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Post by Mike on Mar 19, 2014 10:09:26 GMT -5
Guys, Ales and I have debated the black or white question for close to three years now. It seems Ales has finally acquiesced as the shipment of new AXT style scopes coming to me now are almost all white. I completely understand his choice as it did make Istar scopes distinct. And, there is an article or two, although not backed by any real testing, that black is a better color for scopes. It has to do with the heat bleed off and infrared energy etc.
I have observed these facts concerning scope color:
1) I prefer white... I can't really say why exactly but a white tube with black tube rings just appeals to me... it's just in the DNA I guess. As a kid I dreamed of one day owning a large aperture long focal length Unitron. Man, those 4" F15 tubes with a 60mm guide scope and a finder mounted alongside and tall black equatorial mount was the stuff dreams were made of. 2) When given a choice of black or white on the recently redesigned Phoenix WXT 204-6, all customers who preordered chose white. 3) The undisputed King of refractor builders Zeiss made their scopes in white for the most part. 4) Highly Successful companies followed suit. Examples: Unitron, TEC, AP 5) Every single customer that purchased a lens only and built his own tube assembly choose white as its color. With the exception of a couple who used wood (and of course Mikey who chose battleship gray? This is not a negative comment Mikey I just didn't want to leave you out.)
OK so let's hear it. What is your color choice? Why? Do you think it's the right move for Istar to change to white?
Mike
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Post by Mike on Mar 19, 2014 10:17:19 GMT -5
Ligherweight, retractable dew shield, extra baffling and smooth glossy white powder-coated finish. I don't care for that little CG5 but the scope looks good.
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Post by borispider on Mar 19, 2014 10:21:50 GMT -5
I like the look of white but it wouldn't be THE deciding factor.
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Post by Mike on Mar 19, 2014 10:41:54 GMT -5
No it would not be a deciding factor for me either. In my three years of extensive use and testing of Istar refractors, color has made no difference what so ever in the performance. I have also used Istar refractors for solar imaging and did not find the tube to heat up anymore than previous white scopes I've owned. In fact, we are going to have a big sale on some overstock soon. I'm talking below cost type of sale. All the scopes are black. If you have been thinking about an Istar refractor, this would be the time. White is strictly a preference. It's an Aesthetic thing to me. The Phantom 152mm F8 Fluorite Istar I own not only looks good but is one of the finest telescopes I have ever owned. Believe me when I say being black has no effect on the performance. Mike
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Post by boomboom on Mar 19, 2014 21:50:34 GMT -5
Well I'm in the white crowd. It's the classic look I 'm after as well as the view through the scope. For a while I liked black but it had to be a gloss black. Is it possible at order stage to give people a choice?
Matt
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Post by mikey cee on Mar 20, 2014 0:06:32 GMT -5
My scope is Krylon "Tidepool" and the mounting is a little bluer than battleship gray which was to blah for me. ( )Mike See I believe you have to favor a color in between....that's why I'm a registered Independent!
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Post by astromanuk on Mar 20, 2014 3:04:55 GMT -5
I have to say that my Phoenix 204/1200 looks great in black. It is also a traditional colour. Thomas Cooke & Sons finished their telescopes in either lacquered brass or black. The bright brass was in smaller sizes, but black was available for all sizes. I once had a little 2 3/4" Cooke finished in black.
I am in the black camp if I have to make a choice. However, it is probably the last thing I think of when choosing a telescope. I have a 4" f/15 Skylight finished in satin white and it looks great on a black mount.
I have no plans to repaint my Istar, on the contrary, it is unique amongst my telescopes.
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Post by astromanuk on Mar 20, 2014 3:07:02 GMT -5
I forgot to say, the grey of Mike's telescope looks really good on larger instruments. Reminds me of the older Goto and more recent Zeiss instruments.
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Post by Viktor Z. on Mar 20, 2014 17:28:32 GMT -5
I also love the grey tube of my Istar 6" f/8 R30 but white would be my preference. White goes with every other colour. A white tube with grey/ or black/ or light blue/ focuser and counter cell all look great!
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Post by ukjohn on Mar 20, 2014 19:49:03 GMT -5
If I had a choice, I'd go for white but I'm quite happy with the black of my Perseus AT-150-12. It's mounting arrangements are black so the overall effect is black with the polished silver trims. Looks purposeful !
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Post by bn1777 on Mar 21, 2014 3:14:00 GMT -5
Put me in the 'White' corner , I love the look of my white tubed 127mm f8 . Brian.
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Post by Ales - iStar Optical on Mar 21, 2014 6:13:13 GMT -5
Well I'm in the white crowd. It's the classic look I 'm after as well as the view through the scope. For a while I liked black but it had to be a gloss black. Is it possible at order stage to give people a choice? Matt Matt, yes, of course we will offer a choice between white and black finish. Also, at this moment Im redesigning all popular telescope models to our latest and to my opinion most beautiful, eye appealing 3rd generation look. First scope out in this latest look will be the increasingly popular Phoenix WXT-II 204-6. These new scopes will have the following major advantages compared to all older generations including the recently released AXT and WXT models 1 Dramatically reduced weight, my estimate is 45 percent compared to first generation scopes which most people own. The actual tube assembly of typical scope like Asteria AXT-II 150-8 R35(without lens) will weight only few pounds!! The nicest thing about these new models is fact that I did not substantially lower the structual strength of OTA. I just made it super light compared to all standards. 2 Fully retractable dew shield. All 150mm models have a wonderfully working bayonet lock, something you wont see on any other scope on the market. You simply pull out the dew shield, rotate it by few degrees until it snaps in, than lock it by counter clock wise move. It stays locked in position so well that you can handle the scope even by the dew shield itself, nothing can go wrong. When you want to push the dew shield back in, just unlock it and push back all the way in until it hits the soft felt bumber. 3 All dew shields will be longer, therefore more effective. 4 Some people complained about those small silver screws which are holding all CNC machined baffles in place. I came out with a special friction lock method which will hold baffles in position, while getting rid of all those baffle screws visible on surface and all this at weight reductino of each baffle by approx. 40 percent. 5 Newly designed rear plate will have engraved info about the scope: Model name and number and info about where these OTAs were made which is now combination of European Union and United States!! Sweet combination in todays world ruled by solely Asian work. 6 Completely redesigned counter cell now weights only 40 percent of the original counter cell and is split into two separate parts. The rear part slides together with dew shield on industrial strength felt bearing. There is no longer sharp division between the dew shield / engraved counter cell and main tube. Rear part of the counter cell has beautiful tapered, curved shape resembling a teen girls body. So beware, owning the new 3rd generation XT-II telescope just MAY make your wife or girlfriend jealeous!! :-) 7 And now about the actual color. We will produce both white AND black, depending on customers preferences. Myself, I still prefer black. Not only for its looks but also for its mostly unnoticed physical properties. The fact is that white outside coat cost us substantially more money and we will have to charge a fee between 55 and 95 dollars depending on style / size of scope. Over 4 years ago when I first started building scopes, I was standing face to face to decision which color to choose. After talking to Zdenek, our master optician, I decided for black. Not only because I did like this color better, but also because there were some important facts playing role in this. You can read more about this subject below. Now, after we produced first white scopes, I may actuall like the white the same as black, they both look absolutely "killer" with our silver, green, red or blue transparent jelly-opal trim. So if you dont mind paying a little bit extra for white, you get the most beatiful scope on the market (to my own humble opinion)... :-) WHY BLACK? (Copied from an article on internet) We make our designs including colors of our scopes based on research and laws of physics. In visible light, black surfaces absorb and re-radiate heat much more efficiently than white or reflective surfaces. Light from the sun (with a 5000 K blackbody peak at a wavelength of 0.5 microns) provides the standard reference against which we define colors. However, our common sense definitions of black and white may fail us at other wavelengths appropriate to different blackbody temperatures. Normal telescopes have temperatures around 260-300 K and thus have the peak of their blackbody radiated energy at wavelengths around 10 microns --- in the so-called ``thermal infrared’’. Essentially all painted surfaces appear ``black’’ (high emissivity) at a wavelength of 10 microns, so any painted telescope tube will radiate effectively to its surroundings regardless of the color of the paint. Typically, only metallic surfaces have low emissivity in the thermal infrared. The nature of white is to reflect energy, and black absorbs energy. More energy (light and heat) is reflected from a shinny white surface than from a dull black one. However, because paint is not a perfect reflector, Infrared Radiation (I.R.) will leak through and slowly heat the telescope even if it is housed in an observatory or covered with some material in the outdoors under the Sun. At night, when the air is cooler, we want to remove the heat as fast as possible, so, if the outside of the tube is painted with I.R. reflecting white paint, where does this radiation go? Yes, inside through the black painted inside of the tube! It may be a good idea first to paint the inside the tube (IR reflecting) titanium white then apply a light coat of flat black over the white paint. The white paint would reflect I.R. to the outside of the tube and of course the black reduces light scattering inside. Remember though, paint is an insulator and should be applied with the least amount of coats as possible on the outside of the tube. One might find it useful to black anodize a small aluminum telescope tube. A tube made this way is black through and though. Given the need to channel heat from within the tube to the outside air a bare aluminum lightly coated with black paint may be the best solution Hope you enjoyed my post as I dont have much time to visit and participate on this wonderful forum. cheers, Ales
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Post by rayden68 on Mar 22, 2014 17:33:02 GMT -5
no white, no glossy shiny flecks, flat black with a rough texture is what makes my istar an istar not a clone of everything else! Along with the aluminum cells on both ends gives it a distinct look. So black is the new black. So you know my vote!
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Post by boomboom on Mar 22, 2014 18:49:31 GMT -5
Nice read Ales!
Reduced weight is a good thing. Retractable dew shield is even better.
If only shipping and import taxes weren't so high…..sigh.
Matt
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Post by astromanuk on Mar 23, 2014 7:35:44 GMT -5
Hi Ales,
Thank you for that very informative post. It is always great to hear fro you and Mike what Istar is up to.
Can you, or Mike comment on the future possibility of tube assemblies for your 250mm range of lenses. The next logical step for me is to one of these, especially with a lighter weight assembly.
Best Wishes,
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