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Post by bn1777 on Dec 24, 2012 22:01:58 GMT -5
Man , I want one of these ! Brian.
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aa6ww
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Post by aa6ww on Jan 17, 2013 16:04:07 GMT -5
Id like to hear some reviews on this particular scope. I have an APM 180 F/6 and an 8" or even 9" F/6 is very appealing to me.
The photos are very nice but Ive seen too many photos of ISTAR scopes but no one is talking about their performance it seems.
Looking forward to hearing from people who have purchased them.
...Ralph
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Post by astromanuk on Sept 6, 2013 6:53:31 GMT -5
Hi frt,
Which AOK mount have you used with your Istar? I have the same scope on its way from Mike Harden in USA. I like the counterbalance arrangement you have used to shift the scope point of balance higher. I am planning a similar permanent pier and keeping the scope portable. Have you had much of a chance to use yours yet?
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aa6ww
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Post by aa6ww on Sept 10, 2013 15:01:07 GMT -5
A good friend of mine is in the process of purchasing one of these Phoenix 204 F/6's so I should be able to report some usable real world information on the optical and mechanical performance of this scope in the next few weeks. I have a 180mm F/6 APM and use it on my G11 with a 12" extension pier, he will be using his also on a G11 with an extension pier. We look forward to doing some observing together in the coming weeks. My 180 F/6 is an excellent scope and very lightweight at under 30 pounds. I have been using it for comet hunting, and it has provided me with spectacular views of both Comet PannStarr and Comet Lemmon just recently. Previous to this, it was spectacular at observing Comet Holmes. Its also a beautiful all around telescope for deep space hunting, whether you want to observe galaxy groups, globular and open clusters, large and small planetary nebula's and even star splitting and lunar and planetary observing. This week we used it for observing multiple galaxy systems like Leo's Triplets, M81/M82 side by side, and M97 beside M108.It was also giving us jaw dropping views of the Helix Nebula when using an OIII filter and beautiful views of the Veil Nebula, both East and Western sides. I couldn't quite fit in all of Kimble's Cascade in one field of view with a 41 Pan, but it was close. The Pleiades and Double Cluster in Perseus, the Entire Andromeda Galaxy with M110 and M32 were incredible also. There is so much to see with a large refractor like this, that limiting it to just one type of object doesn't do these types of scopes justice. I actually took it out to try and look for comet ISON last weekend but even though ISON supposedly was at the Eastern Horizon at 3:30am, the conditions this low, even an hr. later, didn't give us any chance of seeing it. Seldom do I find myself using magnifications over 100x, most of my observing is in the 26x to 80x range. I use my 41 Pan, 31Nag, 26Nag, 22Nag, 20Nag, 17Nag almost exclusively with my 180mm refactor. The scope is capable of achieving higher powers, for example when trying to get closer to galaxies such as M104, the sombrero, after first observing M104 beside the Star-gate cluster and the Asterism Jaws all in one field of view. On galaxies, there's no issues achieving 150x or more, the limiting factor would not be the optics, or the seeing conditions, but rather the ability to get a short enough eye piece in the scope to achieve higher power. After all, my 5mm Nagler in my 180 f/6 gives just over 200x in magnification, and this is still usable when trying to look closer and smaller dim galaxies or star splitting. Again, really, there's no need to try and go this high in magnification. These scopes were designed to gulp up large areas of the sky in one field of view. Honestly, there are very very few times when Ive used any eyepiece over my 9mm Nagler in this particular telescope. The Crescent Nebula, the Fetus Nebula, are all amazing in the 70x range. Don't forget the Rosetta Nebula also, this is a very large object and a big wide field refactor is absolutely necessary to bring out the details of this object visually. The entire Belt or Sword in Orion is also beautiful to observe, something few scopes can achieve with so much brilliance. At higher Magnifications approaching 100x, the entire Orion Nebula looks just incredible, like a huge bat flying in the sky. The trapezium is clearly visible and E and F Stars in the Trapezium are very easy to spot in magnifications above 100x. I can’t speak for the 204 F/6, not yet anyways, but I'm assuming it will be everything my APM 180 F/6 is, and more. I also use my scope with a Denkmeier binoviewer with a variety of eyepieces, my favorites are when using 24mm ES 68 deg and 16mm Nagler eyepieces. Finally, don't let anyone try and tell you that chromatic aberration is a deterrent in a telescope like this. Every object I listed above had no detectable Chromatic aberration present. I also observe with a TOA-130, a C11 and C14, a TSA-102 and 150mm Celestron Omni 150R, and my big F6 is just as spectacular as any other scope I’ve observed with and my stars are pin points out the outer edge of field of view, even when using my 41 Pan. I'm looking forward to reporting back on how my friends 204 F/6 performs. I have no doubts I will be even more spectacular than my 180mm f/6.
Ralph in Sacramento
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Post by Mike on Sept 10, 2013 18:55:53 GMT -5
Interesting reading Ralph. You are spot on in stating what this scope was built for. DSOs (dim Objects) at low power. This is where the scope shows its stuff. People want an all around scope. They want to point it at doubles, bright planets, DSOs and have it perform admirably. It's was never meant for bright objects and 50X per inch. 204mm is a large piece of glass and really brings those dark objects in. As long as you remember these basic things you'll thoroughly enjoy the 204-6.
Mike
BTW Ralph, nice collection.
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rgm
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Post by rgm on Sept 16, 2013 6:25:34 GMT -5
Ralph, I look forward to your next report. If I decide to upgrade in aperature from my 127, this is one scope I would consider. I have to keep the focal length under 1600mm, but would want to see as large an aperature increase as possible.
Bob
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aa6ww
New Member
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Post by aa6ww on Sept 21, 2013 22:38:35 GMT -5
Last night I had an opportunity to take my first peek at my friend James new ISTAR Phoenix 204 F/6. Here in Sacramento, some of the weather forecasts were showing a chance of rain but our best source was saying no rain till the following afternoon. Because of this, we decided it would be smart to just set up on his driveway, just incase the weather turned south on us. When I went to his place, his scope was already set up. He was on his driveway with 3 streetlights all in sight, and a near full moon just rising. We didn't care, we are passionate astronomers and having an opportunity to just set up and look at this beast on his G11 would have been good enough even if it remained cloudy. Fortunately, the skies cleared up and the clouds had moved away. Despite our horrible lighting conditions, we were ready to have a first light at this beautiful masterpiece. First off, I'd like to say the 204/F6 was a perfect marriage for the G11 with an optional one foot extension pier installed. For the first time ever, the big mount looked completely matched with a big refractor mounted on it. When I got there, the scope was not balanced on the mount properly. I removed one of the counterweights and ended up with two 21 pound counter weights on the G11. I slid the scope back in its massive stock tube rings because it seemed somewhat front heavy, even with a 2" diagonal and a 41 Panoptic installed. So 41 pounds of counterweights on the G11 was the perfect weight for the big optical tube. I noticed the Moonlight focuser was adjusted a little too light for his two inch eyepieces, so using an allen wrench, I tightened both screws under the focuser which stiffened up the focuser slightly, and the focuser then felt excellent. When the scope was pointing straight up, the big Panoptic moved like glass in and out of the draw tube. The rotating focuser was extremely fluid, very smooth and precise, exactly what you would have wanted. With the 12" Losmandy Extension Pier on the mount, the mount was at a perfect height with the tripod legs full extended. Even when pointing straight up, it was at a perfect height for sitting for observing or just leaning forward, and when observing above the roof lines, we were able to stand comfortably. Had we been in open flat horizons, we may have needed one small step on a two step ladder I always take with me. Overall, this scope was matched perfectly to the G11. With our mediocre skies, I was able to see Cassiopeia and moved the scope over to the double cluster in Perseus. Even with the near full moon about 30 degrees from our target, the big red giants in the double cluster were very prominent and the entire star field was picture perfect pin points. With a big smile, I told my friend Jim that the optics on this scope was excellent. Every star with the widest eyepiece possible was absolutely a perfect pinpoint. It couldn't have been a better image. I panned around and found the ET Cluster, NGC 457. Even with the widefield 41 Pan, the large red and blue star forming the eyes of the ET cluster focuses perfectly. I put in a 14mm ES 100deg eyepiece (85x) and the cluster just jumped into view. Again, perfect pin point stars across the entire field of view, just absolutely perfect optics. This scope had been up for maybe 45 minutes before I started using it, so even in that short amount of cool down time, there were no issues of waiting for the glass to equalize or settle down. The outside temperature was about 55 degrees and despite the clouds just clearing away maybe 2 hrs earlier, there were no signs of puffy stars. Again, the G11 held the scope perfectly. There was no hint of vibration or settling down time when touching the focuser, nothing, the mount was holding the big scope rock steady. My estimation was that with the 11" D mounting plate, the Massive Istar Tube rings, 2" diagonal and 2" eyepieces, this scope sits on the mount at about 50 to 52 pounds fully loaded. I didn't mount the scope, so at the time I didn't know how heavy it was to hold, but it seems to sit on the mount at about the same weight as my C11 with a 4" F/6 refractor piggy backed on top of my mount, with two 11" DC11 mounting plates on top and bottom of my Aluminum tube C11 with a 2" diagonal and 2" eyepieces. This is the scope the G11 was designed to support, hence the name "G11" for a C11. To me, this mount was also, designed to hold this beautiful Phoenix 204 F/6. Back to observing, straight above us, I noticed Cygnus, so I put back in the 41 Pan and pointed the scope straight up at M27, the Dumbbell Nebula. The big glass of the scope made the object jump out in the background. We put in the ES14 eyepiece again, and a deep sky filter, and despite the full moon with 3 streetlights in our face, the beautiful dumbbell shape stood out for us to observe. I estimated, with the scope pointing at the Zenith, when using the G11 with the one foot pier extension, the eyepiece height was between 36" to 42", a very comfortable height for sitting in an adjustable chair or just leaning over. Panning around in Cygnus, huge amount of stars were obvious, despite us not being able to make out the Milky Way at all with no optics. Stars again were beautiful. I moved over to Alberio in Cygnus, and the rich gold and blue stars came into view. We put in the 14mm ES100 deg eyepiece again and the stars focused beautifully. I panned around the entire field of view to check the focus over the entire field and the stars remained in sharp focuser every where in the eyepiece. There were no signs of spherical aberration anywhere in the field of view. This lens system was absolutely perfect for pin point starts over the entire field of view. I wanted to take a look at the double double in Lyra, to see if I could split the double double but thin clouds started to moving in. I tried to point the scope at M81/M82, but one of the streetlights was right below where these galaxies were located, and a big blast of glare just filled up the eyepiece, so I didn’t bother. I moved the scope back over to the east and was just able to make out the great square of Pegasus, so I found M31, M110 and M32 instead even with the moon so bright and nearby. We put in a 9mm ES100mm eyepiece (133x) and M110 and M32 were much more obvious and the star fields around both galaxies as before, were perfect pin points of light. The galaxies were beautiful, the big IStar Phoenix 204 F/6 was laughing at the bright street lights and near full moon skies, and showing off how spectacular its optics were. In two weeks from now, weather permitting, we will be taking this scope out, along with my C11, and looking to catch our first views of Comet ISON. Since clouds started to roll in around midnight, we called it a night. Two of us took the scope off the mount, me and Jim, the proud owner of this beautiful scope. He wanted to lift it off himself, but I said there's no reason for that since there were several of us there to observe the first light from the scope. So I held onto the back of the scope, he swung off the tube rings and he lifted the front of the scope over the rings and held the scope in his arms smiling. His said the scope was heavy, so I reached for it and held it myself. Wow, I had no idea this scope was that heavy. Much heavier than I thought, not because 42 or so pounds is heavy, but because its a very awkward 42 pounds to hold, since there are no handles on this scope when its removed from the tube rings. To me, it’s completely manageable by one person only, if you consider yourself a healthy average strength male but you have to be extremely careful and take your time in setting it up. Set your tripod legs to as low as possible to mount it. Put your counterweights on first, install the tube rings on the mount, then lift the scope onto the rings and swing over one ring at a time. Doing it this way, on this type of mount, is completely manageable. Then slowly extend each tripod leg a few inches at a time till you get it set up at its maximum height. If you’re the type of person that always feels you have to rush, forget it, get something smaller and lighter. But if you value your observing, and make it a passion in your life, and don’t feel you have to rush home for “any reason” when your ready to tear down your gear, and enjoy setting up and taking down your gear nearly as much as using it, the extra effort to set up a large refractor like this is well worth it. This scope is a deep space scope. It should pull in deep space objects comparable to a 10” SCT at least, but with much more pleasing high definition views. Nevertheless, since Jim and myself always seem to observe together, I mentioned to him there's really no reason to try and set this up by himself and risk either injuring his back, or risk dropping the scope. So we decided its best mount the scope and take it off the mount together. To me, it’s as heavy as his Meade 12" OTA, but much more awkward to lift and mount. My C14 is much heavier and I prefer to mount my OTA on my G11 by myself, but again, I lift it and rest it on my Robin Cassidy saddle on my G11, something I’ve been doing for 15 years now, but the C14 has handles everywhere making it much easier to mount than the 204 f/6 OTA. Compared to my 180mm F/6 APM refractor which weights in at 26 pounds, my 180 is a featherweight. It’s got a sliding dew shield so it’s very compact to transport and set up and I keep my tube rings installed on my scope with a handle on top of the scope which makes mounting it very easy. Nevertheless, this Phoenix 204 F/6 is absolutely worth the extra effort it takes to mount, because it’s just a magnificent optical instrument. A sliding or removable dew shield option would help make this much more transportable even in a small compact car. A binoview ready option would be nice also, making it a true comet hunter for sweeping the night skies with two eyes.
Ralph Aguirre Founder of the Sacramento Valley Active Astronomers Group Sacramento, Calif.
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Post by astromanuk on Sept 22, 2013 7:58:39 GMT -5
Hi Ralph,
Thank you for taking the time to post such a comprehensive and enlightening report.
Mike tells me that my 204/1200 is being shipped to the UK in the next few days. I have even been given the Moonlight upgrade at no extra chaqrge. Mike is out of the stock Istar focuser and unlike other companies who would tell you to cough up the difference or wait Mike just told me they would cover the difference so I wouldn't have to wait for the scope. Even before I have seen the telescope I am impressed with Istar.
I am under no illusion as to what this telescope is designed for. I have used many refractors in my 40 years of observing including 5" f/5 and 7" f/5 comet hunters made from WWII surplus optics. Both suffered from severe ca if pointed at anything bright but excelled over larger newtonians for contrast.
Your use of higher powers fits in with what I recall from my old telescopes. That is when you up the power on distended nebulous objects you do see more detail and especially when using OIII and Skyblock type filters. The theoretical maximum power for this scope of 0.25D really does not tell the whole story.
I will post back on this group when mine arrives. Not sure how to mount it yet, but it is good to hear that a G11 takes it.
Thanks again Ralph
Best wishes,
Ian
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Post by Mike on Sept 22, 2013 23:34:50 GMT -5
Ralph, thank you so much for such an in depth report of the new scope. James was a pleasure to deal with and seemed like a really nice guy. "Just absolutely perfect optics" now that's what I like to hear! Yes, it is a little on the heavy side but 204mm is a big piece of glass. Thanks for the heads up on the focuser needing just a little more tension. I'll relay that to Ron at Moonlight. Well I hope you guys continue to enjoy the new scope. Let us know how it does in a dark observing spot. I think you made Ian and my day Mike Believe me, we hear you on the retractable dew shield.
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Post by Mike on Sept 22, 2013 23:36:57 GMT -5
If you guys get a chance, snap a picture of the scope mounted on the Losmandy with the pier extension.
Mike
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aa6ww
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by aa6ww on Sept 23, 2013 2:26:04 GMT -5
I really didn't wanna steal James thunder and start talking about his scope before he did, but it seems no one has really spoken about how well these are optically, from a uses prospective. The reviews can only get better, from what I can see. I hope this coming weekend and next weekend when its a new moon, he will be taking it out with me for a few all nighters. It should be an impressive duo, being set up beside my C14, also on my G11. Up until now, I have always been the one taking out a large refractor. Now I can get back to taking out my largest SCT and James I'm sure will be using his big 204 almost exclusively, so our two scopes should compliment each other very nicely. Its a nice combination when a group of astronomers using various types of scopes can all work together to really address the skies. Being able to use such a large potent refractor to really gulp up large areas of the sky in one field of view with such excellent optics, and then be able to get in closer with more details on the deeper smaller objects with my C14, really makes for a nice night of observing. We'll get some nice photos taken in the next few weeks and post them in here.
Ralph in Sac.
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aa6ww
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Post by aa6ww on Oct 18, 2013 5:28:52 GMT -5
I have had a few nights using my friends new PHOENIX WFT 204-6, along with using my C14 and 180mm APM refractor. The Big refractor seems to perform very well, it continues to impress me. Optically, it really is a compliment to our group when we have other scopes out with us. The large clear aperture is excellent for large open views of deep sky and large or multiple objects side by side. The scope is very easy to use and reminds me of a large dobsonian, in how its so easy to scan any part of the sky to locate objects. This is a huge plus for people with none GoTo mounts who have some trouble locating objects in longer focal length scopes. We tried to stay out to locate the 3 comets in the sky currently, Lovejoy, Eckne and ISON, but during the last new moon, the weather caught us off guard and it was just too cold for us on that one particular Saturday night to stay up till sunrise. We will be trying it again next weekend, being ready for the cold this time. Its definitely not a bright object telescope. The intense deep purple that comes off of objects like Venus and Jupiter will have you turning away from them. This is no surprise, since this is truly a low to mid power wide field scope. Aside from these two planets so far, the optics have been spectacular. Under darker skies, objects like the Pleiades just sparkles and shows more nebulosity than Ive ever seen in a refractor, being able to capture the entire object in one field of view. Andromeda is just dazzling with a 41 Panoptic, the two satellite galaxies, M32 and M110 are nearly as spectacular beside M31, and M31 itself. I can go on and on about how objects look, but the point is, if someone really wants a large refractor, this one would be tough to beat. I did notice that on stars brighter than about mag 2, the deep violet color becomes obvious. Despite that, the scope does do an excellent job at focusing the stars to tiny perfect dots of light, or round perfect balls, depending on the size of the star. We didn't get to look at the planet Uranus or Neptune during our last outing. I found them with my C14, but I think because of the size of these planets, and other distractions around us during that particular night, we didn't have time to locate them in the big refractor. I didn't personally spend much time hunting for objects in the refractor, but instead just walked over to it and took a peek in the eyepiece once James had located something. I was involved in locating dimmer deep sky objects with my own scope, and let him do his thing with his own scope. I will say though, that I think the PHOENIX WFT 204-6 can use more light baffling. This won't be an issue at all in dark sites with no low level lighting nearby, but where we were at, there was a building about a block away, and though there were no lights shining on us directly, some stray light was entering the tube until the scope was pointed in a different direction completely. My APM 180 F6, does not have this issue at all, but it has a huge number of light baffles in the tube by comparison. My C14 does not have this issue also. Its just something to mention, and be aware of, if your observing with low level lighting nearby. We are moving to a new dark site location in two weeks, that has absolutely no lights visible anywhere, so this wont be an issue to us from this point on. The scope doesn't seem to be bad at higher power on dim galaxies and planetary nebulas also. It seems to hit its ceiling at about 150x to 175x, still, this is way above what most would even consider using this scope at. Most of my observing, with most of my scopes, is below this anyways. With the exception of really getting on planets, for example when observing the planet Uranus this last time out, I was up in the 430x to 550x range on my C14, to pull in the 15th magnitude moons of the planet. We haven't tried the 204 on splitting tight double also yet. Honestly, I would say if anyone ever wanted to consider a large scope like the PHOENIX WFT 204-6, by all means, don't hesitate to get one, if you can handle lifting the weight and your mount can support it. Its a dream scope that noting else in its class can compete with, for the price, and for its excellent optics. Attached are two photos I took of our scopes. One is the 204-6 by itself on a Losmandy G11 with a 1 foot extension pier, the other is beside my C14. I'll report back in a few weeks after we locate the 3 comets in the sky we currently have. ....Ralph in Sacramento i18.photobucket.com/albums/b142/aa6ww/8and14_zpsfd97d20c.jpgi18.photobucket.com/albums/b142/aa6ww/8_zpsc354a13a.jpg
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Post by Viktor Z. on Dec 1, 2013 2:11:35 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing these observations and impressions, Ralph. I am seriously considering to build a second Istar refractor, and have been thinking a lot about choosing the proper lens diameter and focal length,and other pros and cons...
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Post by Mike on Apr 8, 2014 12:40:26 GMT -5
The 204mm F6 Comet Hunter has been completely redesigned. It will now be made of thin walled aluminum alloy, have a drastic reduction in size of the back plate and counter cell (therefore further reducing the weight). The counter cell will now taper gradually at an angle instead of the abrupt 90 degree angle. The counter cell will no longer be engraved. I believe the engraving is being moved to the back plate. The dew shield is now retractable and has a new lens cap design. The dew shield moves forward and twists in a bayonet style action to lock it in place. The scope tube is in white with black tube rings. It will have a quality 3.5" rack and pinion white focuser. We believe the weight reduction from the original design is some 40%. The lenses are finished and the tubes and related parts are currently in production. John and Gerry, I am truly excited for you. Your wait will (weight) be worth it. All our scopes will be made in the fashion from now on. Each model will be redesigned as the orders come in.
Mike
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jrc
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Post by jrc on Apr 8, 2014 18:25:38 GMT -5
Sounds sensational and i am waiting keenly to be the first southern hemisphere user in MT Victoria NSW (google it)
A question i have for Ralph & others: I plan to pu this on a G 11 - just tell me please why i would need the extension pier does it need extra lift so it doesnt hit the tripod legs or is it for eyepiece height ?
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